If we could find a nice area of land, and we were all skilled and educated people i.e. builders, doctors, musicians, cooks, cleaners etc... could we divorce ourselves from all of the world's systems and controls so we have nothing to do with them anymore? And would we bev under threat of invation by those who didn't want us to do this?
No, for two reasons.
1) The wrold has a way of finding you.
2) People still bring with them their prejudices and would the doctors sneer at the janitorial staff?
This is how th entire civilization started. This is how America started. But there are more failed experiements than successsful ones. And even if you consider today's America a successfull one, it is clealy not since you want to escape from it.
And what are your merits, or should I say, your community merits, if you take the best of today's society and reject the rest? Why not start over? And no matter if your project is successful, history also shown that communism doesn't work. Otherwise, what do you really mean by 'egalitarian'? Human are motivated to endeavor and produce only if they can personally and disproportionaly benefit from their work. Why should I work 10 hours a day and be paid exactly the same as a part time or and unemployed? Why should I wake up at 6 a.m. but eat the same quality and quality of food as someone who get up at noon?
Our current system is surely not perfect, we can always try to make it such. But your community, if not invaded from outside, will just succumb under its own weight. People will get demotivated from working, greed will take over few, the rest will feel abused, the feeling of unjustice will reign, then someone will come to ask "If enough people wanted to join me in creating an egalitarian community all of our own, would you join?"
Hasn't this already been tried and didn't they call it communism?
To answer your first question; the only way to divorce yourself from the world is if you could be 100% self-sufficent. This, I would suggest, is impossible.
To answer the second question; you'd only be invaded if the invaders would consider it worth their while to prosecute the invasion. Or to put it simply, if you've got something worth taking, unless you've got the means to stop them, some SOB is going to take it.
Sorry, mate, human nature.
There may be some out there that survive and they are never in the spotlight, but from these "communes" that have been, as the other person said, "collapse", and have very odd other "beliefs" aside from what you are suggesting. I don't know that we would be clearly "divorced" from the world's systems and controls because we buy some farmland that's all our own and live in a commune. I would not join as I am not a "clique" type person in any form.
Interesting suggestion, bud!
But, how would you overcome the negative experiences of previous attempts?
While it is an attractive idea, you might be better off asking others to contribute to the writing of a basic constitution that gives everyone an idea of their place within this 'new society' as an individual and her / his rights.
What happens to the disabled? Where would you draw the lines between skilled and educated?
Of course, I would like to be a part of something entirely different, but that change could only appeal to me if I found the community's ethics and practises appealing enough to leave my current life behind entirely.
so you want to include only skilled and educated people? bev land divorce What would your opinion be of the unskilled and not so well educated? Who would you include? Who would you exclude? The disabled? What is needed is a more open society not a closed one as you suggest. If you shut yourself up in 'ivory towers' it would be far from egalitarian. What will you do to your offspring that don't reach your standards?? Kill them as a 'final solution' ??
If you are unhappy with the present society, then change your attitudes towards it, then perhaps your neighbours. You only have to look at history to see how well off we are compared to other epochs of time.
What is needed is a more open society, not little enclaves of closed societies. That turn into warring tribes.
If you don't want to be next to someone in the gutter perhaps you should spend more time raising him up from his position, instead of walking away to some ivory tower.
'We may be in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars!!! (oscar wilde I think)
NO, why.
Because unless most were under some type, of Hallucinogenic.
You would have discontent arising, out of the combination. It may start with Doctor A doesn't like what Builder O, is doing.
By trying to make Scotch, instead of some form of Ancient
Herbal Remedy for the Common Cold.
And it would escalate from their, up to a point where you'd have one part of the community backing BuilderO and one part backing DoctorA and one part not really caring who'se right, but.
Will choose sides anyway and thus you'd have an initially harmonious community, degenerating into World War 325, very easily
for all the people who use the examples of communism as a means of refuting, I disagree! An egalitarian society didn't cause communist countries to implode! Communism and egalitarianism are two very different things. Classic Marxism and communism is supposed to incorporate equality into their ideology but if you take a look at Soviet communism you will find that equality was not present very much in their policies. You say 'egalitarian society' and people automatically interpret it as 'evil', 'pinko' communism for some reason. I think your idea is beautiful, though extremely idealistic. I would be skeptical to join I have to admit. People who hate anything to do with the left of the spectrum would shun us I suppose, and probably see us as a communism threat and freak, but that's kinda cold war-ish and hopefully we've all learned from that...sorry for rambling
Thanks, but no.
The concept sounds appealing, no doubt. However, in practice much of the same society would be replicated in the new one.
Having professions as you listed, would automatically provide a status system. Would the cook be equal to the doctor and earn the same money, or would their be an imposed class structure to begin with.
Would the society be prepared to forgo individual rights for society's rights to maintain an egalitarian system even if the individual's rights were violated.
YES! If you could find nice land, and could convince skilled people to move there, and could find some way to get rid of the rest of the worlds ties and involvement, and live without threats of invasion then what the hell are we waiting for? The sooner we get away from those who would say 'no' the better. BUT such is very hard to achieve. On paper it looks and sounds good, but there are always bloody complications like split families and we would need allies to help us in famines and other natural disasters .
Tell me the moment you find a suitable place!!!
Sounds like wbev land divorcehat modern day society deems a "cult", needless to say it would be threatened by all the surrounding close-minded, pompous individuals who deem themselves worthier than everybody else and have nothing to do, but mess with other people to build up their own ego's. Sounds wonderfully idealistic.
YES!
I am so sick and tired of my life.
YES, YES, YES!
I wished we could do that. Really. I would to turn off all my life and get a new one. I would like to be a full-time pianist. I'm 14 so I have to study hard and I can't play the piano as much as I wished I could.
If someday you find that 'nice area of land', tell me something, okay? I really wanna go.
musicians lol skilled and educated. Is this a joke? husbands are builders, wives are nurses I thought you wanted a kind of freedom from western society. I suppose we all have to load up half a dozen 4x4's or something and take enough food to last us until such times as the corn grows. Once you start poaching land you'd be peppered with shot and arrested.
You propose a Eutopian Community.
They've been tried before with vaying degres of success.
Any insular community will always be regarded with
some suspicion and resentment by its neighbors.
(Its insularity being a rejection of the outside and its
values, it would be foolish to expect otherwise.)
Before I'd consider joining any such endeavor,
I'd have to know it REALLY well.
You couldn't be divorced from the entire rest of the world. even the successful communes still must have some interaction with the government (unless they want to get raided for tax evasion.)
It sounds pretty good to me. You might have better luck joining an already existing community, though.
That has been tried before, usually by small groups. Capitalism (the police) always trashes the camp, destroys the crops, sometimes killing a member or two and forces the remaining members to rejoin the capitalist society. We are all free, as long as we do 'exactly' what we are told to do.
I'd join any society of that nature.
Just think, a society where money is meaningless; we could actually evolve!
No, all those experiments failed in the USA because they ignored the fundamental delusions that plague even the best intended. There are people whi are truly good, but they are not enough to enable survival of a commune. Read some history of communes.
Sealand's up for sale - you could buy that.
You can't form an egalitarian community on the basis of elitism.
These utopias always implode from within. Eventually, human nature takes over and things go sour. Still, it's a lovely thought.
Whenever somebody tries this, the entire society collapses.
Wishful thinking, eh?
Yeh, i'd definately join.
Sure but we would eventually be invaded and murdered
yes if;
a) it wasn't a cult
b) I could have acool job that gave me my own car
c) I got a cool uniform
It doesn't appeal to me. There are many people I know who wouldn't fit in
and that would be a loss - (off to read some more about Karl Popper)
No, I love America and believe in her laws.
No.
No, thanks.
Been there, done that.
Waste of time.
NO!! I'm on my own ego trip.
Sounds good to me =]
No comments:
Post a Comment